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203. Basta che tele...
 
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203. Basta che telefoni

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Stefano
(@stefano)
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Prima di entrare in casa, aspettiamo che i miei genitori dormano. Before going in the house, let’s wait for my parents to go to sleep. Ti aspetti che il maestro creda a questa scusa? Do you expect the teacher to believe this excuse? Che confusione! Bisogna che metta la casa in ordine. What a mess!…

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(@rebekahross1gmail-com)
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Joined: 2 years ago
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#3: Penso che sia più chiaro dire: "Bisogna che tu metta la casa in ordine". Oppure "Bisogna che metta la casa in ordine tu". Altrimenti lei penserebbe che intenda qualcun altro.


   
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Stefano
(@stefano)
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Sì, la frase è ambigua. La traduzione in inglese è solo una delle possibili interpretazioni.

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(@morton-lim)
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Hi
This is a question which does not relate to this section but I hope you can help me. I refer to the expression "glie la passo". I have seen many explanations - all of which are rather confusing. It seems to me that in the expression:
"glie" = to him
"la" = informal female object
So "gliela passo" = to him I will pass an informal female object.
So
1. what should the expression be if one is passing "to HER" rather than "to HIM
2. what if the object being passed is MALE (does it change to "glielo passo" ) or a FORMAL (does it change to "La") person?
Grazie!


   
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Julieta
(@julieta)
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Ciao Morton!

Your question is about double pronouns. In Italian, there are different types of pronouns such as direct (mi, ti, lo/la, ci, vi, li/le); indirect (mi, ti, gli/le, ci, vi, loro [gli]) or stressed (me, te, lui/lei, noi, voi, loro) to name a few. At this link you can find more information and examples.

Double pronouns are the combination of direct and indirect pronouns. At this link you can find an article all about them and a useful table for understanding how they are created.

To answer your question "gliela" is formed by gli (indirect pronoun) + la (direct pronoun). Example: Passa la bicicletta a Marco. Gliela passo subito.
So if the example is: Passa la bicicletta a Maria. The pronoun is still "gliela". Because gli (indirect) is used for both male and female.
If the object is male it would be "glielo" as you wrote.
And if you are using formal Lei, you need to use glielo, gliela, glieli, gliele.

Please le t me know if it's more clear or if you need more examples.

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(@morton-lim)
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@julieta 

Thank you - that is reasonably clear. My confusion is with the following. If I ring and ask to speak to a lawyer,  his receptionist might say "gliela passo" ( or glielo passo?)

Does that mean  " to him I will pass you " or "to you I will pass him" ?

I have also heard it said that if the receptionist says "glielo passo" , it means "to him I will pass IT - in which case, does IT refer to "the telephone" ?

Grazie!

 

 

 

 

 


   
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Julieta
(@julieta)
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Ciao Morton!

If the lawyer is a female, the receptionist would say "gliela passo". And if the lawyer is a male, the receptionis would say "glielo passo".
That means "I will pass her/him to you".

If the lawyers ask the receptionist to pass the telephone, it would be "glielo passo". But you need to be aware always of the context of the sentence and to understand what the pronouns are replacing.

Let me know if the explanation was clear 🙂

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(@morton-lim)
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@julieta 

So basically, "glie" in both cases (glielo/gliela passo) means "to you (formal)". Correct? I have found it confusing because I have never found it stated anywhere in grammar books  that "gli" can also mean "to you (formal)". My understanding was that it could mean only "to him", "to her" or "to them"!

Grazie!


   
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Julieta
(@julieta)
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Ciao Morton!

Gli + lo (glielo) e gli + la (gliela) means to you as you wrote.

It can be used formally because it Italian is used Lei (third-person singular) so it would become gliela.

Please let us know if it's clear or if you have any other question or doubt 🙂

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(@donald-bell)
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Joined: 2 months ago
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Penso che frasi 10) Quando guadagni al mese? dovrebbe essere 'Quanto guadagni al mese ?"


   
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(@donald-bell)
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While I've accumulated an extenisve list of the many things that trigger the use of the Subjunctive, having identifed at least 12 different conditions,
I was uncertain about what triggered its use in 4 of the 30 example sentences:

12) Non serve che compri un regalo costoso

21) Hai un coltello che tagli bene ?

27) In Italia è raro che un governo duri più di un anno.
Is it duri because 'e raro che' is an Opinion ?

30) Per quanto mi sforzi non riesco a capire.

There's really a lesson behind this lesson, namely identifying the things that trigger the subjunctive in each of the 30 sentences. The conjugations are relatively easy compared to knowing when to use the subjunctive.


   
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Julieta
(@julieta)
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Posts: 264
 

Ciao Donald!

You were right, there was a typo. But we corrected it already.

Thank you so much for pointing it out!

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Julieta
(@julieta)
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Ciao Donald!

Let's recap: We use the present of the subjunctive to talk about hopes, hypotheses, desires, fears, possibilities, and doubts.
And we find it mostly after the main clause and it’s usually preceded by the conjunction “che” and expressions like “a meno che non” (unless), “affinché” (so that), prima che (before).

In sentence #12 they are talking about the possibility of buying an expensive gift.
In sentence #21 they are talking about the desire of finding a sharp knife.
In sentence #27 they are talking about a doubt regarding the government.
In sentence #30 they are talking about the possibility of not understanding.

Subjunctive is a bit challenging so you are doing an excellent job asking questions.

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(@donald-bell)
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Joined: 2 months ago
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Julieta, thank-you for your clarification.

Regarding sentence 30 

"Per quanto mi sforzi, non riesco a capire"

I found the concept of Proposizione Concessive that seemed pertinent:

  • These are subordinate clauses that express a condition that ought to make the main clause false, but it doesn't. They are always at the subjunctive except when introduced by anche se, when they are usually at the indicative. ie....Per quanto questo problema sia difficile, ho fiducia di riuscire a risolverlo.

   
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Julieta
(@julieta)
Studente bravissimo
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Posts: 264
 

Ciao Donald!

Yes, "preposizioni concessive esplicite" are as you described: a subordinate clause that expresses a fact or situation that happens disregarding what the main clause expressed.

I know you are trying to understand and go deeper but I think this can make you more confused because there are a lot of details to have in mind when using them. For example this kind of clauses are introduced by conjunctions, locuzioni congiuntive concessive (seppure, benché, ancorché, anche se, quand’anche, con tutto che), indefinite pronouns or adjectives or adverbs (chiunque, qualunque, comunque, come che, checché).
Usually, the verb is a subjunctive but not when it's introduced by anche se o da con tutto che.

"Presposizioni concessive" can also be implicite so I really think it's better to stick to the 4 modes of Subjunctive and when you're an expert you can add more knowledge to the mix to avoid confusion.

I have to congratulate you because you're really taking the lessons to the next level and that is so gratifying.

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